Heart t' Heart

[JoJo]

My sponsor told me about a talk Elder Boyd K. Packer gave in General Conference Priesthood Session, October 2, 1976.
www.lds-mormon.com/only.shtml

She told me about this talk because we are having problems with our oldest son controlling his urges. He has been struggling with this problem since he was 4 and just turned 11.

Last night we sat down with him and went over this talk with him. We let him ask questions and we had a really good discussion with him. My husband told him how he read this talk when he was around 19 and he really wished that he would have had someone to talk to him like this when he was becoming a young man. I really pray this helps our son and that he will feel like he can come to us if this issue for him continues. He is a great kid. He is super smart and super emotional - just like my husband.

My sponsor told me that I need to remember that just because my husband is a s~x addict does not mean our son will become one. She keeps reminding me to repeat steps one thru three.

I know I cannot control my son. I just want to help. My sponsor said the more I try and control my son the worse things will get for him. I do not want that to be the case. I just want him to know that we love him regardless and that we are here for him. I don't want him to feel all alone and unworthy like my husband did - the secrecy gave Satan open access to my husband and I pray we can help our son fight Satan off.

Just thought I would share.

[Tricia V]

Thank you for linking to that talk. I think it will be a thing to discuss for us. My husband's first effort to really talk to my son about it was to to scare him with stories of kidnapping! I think he's old enough to understand this talk.

I have had times I was very upset about the situation, and wondering what will happen to our son. There's a phrase we use with regard to the spouses of addicts, "it's not about you" and for the coaddict, it is equally true that "it's not about him". My relationship with the Lord is not a hostage to the addict's behavior.

[JoJo]

I'm trying to understand how I am supposed to be a mother - to be a steward for the children the Lord has entrusted me with and know that I am failing.

When I first posted this topic I wrote: How to help my son? I'm learning very rapidly that I cannot help my son. That is so hard to write. It pierces my soul.

Since I've last posted this my son has had two more incidents. Once a week. We now know what is triggering him - but either at 11 he cannot control the urges or he is choosing not to control them.

My husband and I have both talked to him. He doesn't come find us when he is triggered and he doesn't stop to pray for help. I guess this is where step one really starts. I am powerless over my son. I will continue to pray for him, but I cannot police him and until he wants help - I don't see how I can help him. I will continue to love him unconditionally. I guess I just have to,"let go and let God."

I don't know if my son would have started down this road if my husband hadn't brought this evil spirit into our home. We have addiction on both sides of our family. But, my husband left us unprotected and opened the door to our home to Satan and allowed him to have free reign. I didn't understand what evil influences our minds were being exposed to.

My husband says he doesn't know if he should be upset with himself for bringing this evil into our home or be grateful that we will have the tools to help our son. I don't know the answer to that question right now.

I just don't know...

[TimA.]

JoJo,

I dont know either and I am certainly noone to be followed. I am an addict with an opinion and that is all.

We are only responsible for our own acts and not the acts of others. If we neglect the guidance of our children in some we are responsible for that neglect only, not what our children may do because of that neglect on our part.

I had very little (actually none) s~x instruction from my parents as I grew up. The "talk" never happened. Did that set me up to fall into the addiction I have now? Maybe and maybe not but they are in no way responsible for the choices I have made in my life. I alone am responsible for my choices. The only responsibility they have is for what they did or did not do and not for any act it may have caused me to do.

Also because your son has acted out in a certain way does not automatically mean he will become an addict. Many people drink alcohol their whole life and are never addicted. Some drink for a while and decide to quit and do so without problem but still others drink to excess and are never able to stop. I think it is the same with s~x addiction some commit s~xual sin and repent with relative ease and never commit that sin again while others become in bondage to it.

I know this sounds crazy but I believe the addictions we have are custom designed by God for each of us to give us the maximum gain from our mortality. They hurt and cause us pain but we will see they were actually good for us in the end. Why else would a loving God place us in such circumstances?

Anyway that is how I see it, if it helps use it if not discard it.

Tim

[JoJo]

Tim,

Thanks for your thoughts.

As I continue to work my program I continually have to remind myself that I have to give up trying to be in control. I am not in control and I am powerless. I have been advised that the more we try and control others acting out - the worse they seem to act out.

I am striving to put my faith in the Lord that He will be there for my son as he is going through his trials. I know with a my heart that They know more than me and will be there for him. I will continue to love my son and be here for him regardless of the choices that he makes.

Thanks again,
JoJo

[Stephen]

That talk you included a link to is amazing. I have never read it before, but what a great way to discuss such a sensitive issue.

Thanks for sharing.

Stephen

[PhilH]

Jojo,

Thank you for your comment on how trying to control someone's actions can make them worse. Kathy, my first wife, was the daughter of a medical doctor. When she got to be about 8-10 and started developing some normal pre-adolescent chubbiness, her parents (mother, mostly) freaked out and started taking her to her father's medical office every week to be weighed. I think it only cemented in her an obsession about food and weight, which she struggled with the rest of her life. OA helped her a lot, though.

I think in the case of your son, it would be great to be a resource for him, but I think it would be best to let him come to you, rather than you initiating the discussion or checking up on him. That is the difference between inside-out and outside-in motivation. I know I tend to resist someone trying to control me (we fought a war over this, as you remember) but when I learned to surrender my will to the Savior, He changed me from the inside so I didn't want to act out with pornography and mb any more. That was so different from all my efforts to get clean before.

I'm not sure the best way to do it, but I think the best thing we can do for our children is to teach them to have a relationship with the Savior so they have somewhere to go with their challenges. I wish I had done that better with my children, especially my boys, who are now all grown, and not at all close to the Lord. But I couldn't teach them to know the Lord back then, because I didn't know Him myself. I have to trust that He is looking after them now, and will guide them back when they will let Him.

My prayers are with you and your family.

Phil

[Tricia V]

I can't control my child's behavior, but I think I am responsible to give him the information that what he now sees as an escape will come to be a terrible prison. I don't know if he struggles with guilt at this point (he's 9) or if it even has a sexual aspect to it. But it certainly will soon.

[JoJo]

Last Sunday we were coming home from my son's priesthood preview and I felt like I should ask him how he was doing with his problem. My husband and I had left the door open for him to come to us and talk to us if he was still slipping.

My eleven year old proceeded to tell us that he was still having issues. We asked him what that meant - he said around 3 times a week.

We were in the car so I turned around so he couldn't see my shock. In my mind I was thinking - wow I think he is well on his way to addiction.

My husband asked him if he was saying his prayers. Our son said he forgets.

I pulled myself together and told him that we love him very much, but we couldn't help him if he doesn't want help. I told him that he has to want to stop, but regardless we will still love him. We just want to help him if he wants our help.

He said that he feels that it is definitely becoming a problem.

My husband asked him what triggers him. He said it was commercials mostly, but sometimes video games. My husband encouraged him to say a prayer when he was triggered, leave the room, and find one of us to hang out with for a while.

Our son finally said that he felt he needed a blessing. My husband is still unable to give him one, so he had to call his dad and ask him to give our son a blessing.

Our son is such a good kid. He is super smart and extremely sensitive. He has had a hard time fitting in at school the past few years.

My husband said that unfortunately he remind him of himself.

I'm going to continue to pray for them both. But, I once again remind myself that I cannot control whether my son or husband choose to stay sober. I love them and will be here for them, but I will continue to give over my fears to the Lord.

My sponsor encouraged me to make a God box and to write down those things that I cannot control and put them in the box. That way I can give them over to God.

I'm been considering making boxes with the entire family for F.H.E. It seems like a good idea for all of us. We all have things that we cannot control in our lives and so giving them over to God is the best thing we can do for ourselves - helping us to maintain the sanity in our lives.

[JoJo]

Yesterday was such a wonderful day. After waiting 8 months our youngest son was finally able to be baptized by his father. This was the first baptism and confirmation that my husband has ever done with our children worthily. It was a great experience. Our youngest son was so excited and just seem to be glowing.

When we went to bed last night my husband told me that he caught our oldest son acting out again in his room. I went over the events in my mind and my husband and I discussed what had occurred.

Following the baptism, the six of us went out as a family to dinner. We don't do that a lot because going out to eat with six people is expensive. We had a good dinner and enjoyed each others company.

After dinner we stopped to get gas so we would have gas to get to church today. Apparently while my husband was pumping the gas our 11 yr. old saw an advertisement in the gas station window of a immodestly dressed woman selling beer. I didn't notice it. My husband told me later that he registered that it was there - but he has just trained himself when anything like that registers he looks else where and doesn't look back again.

Once we got home everyone changed out of their church clothes and we all got gathered downstairs to watch an old disney movie from the 70's and had a good time.

So, our son saw this poster - he came home and changed out of his clothes and then wrapped himself in his blanket and started acting out. The two boys share a room and he didn't even care that his younger brother was in the room.

I know that I have no control if my son becomes a S.A. We have told him that our door is always open. He has received a blessing. We have told him when he has these feelings to say a prayer, get out of your room, find one of us and talk if you need to, or find someone else to do something with. He doesn't do it. He just says sorry.

I know the l~st has taken over or at least that is what is triggering him.

We are fasting today to see if Heavenly Father can guide us in how we can help him, but also how we can set boundaries so that our youngest son is not exposed to our older sons acting out. Setting boundaries sounds wrong. I don't want to give my son the green light to think what he is doing is okay and I don't want him to think that we do not care about him. We are just at a lost to know how to help him or to protect our youngest son.

If our oldest son was older my husband could take him to the P.A. workshop or even to the ARP meetings. But he is 11 not 17. Unfortunately, I know he has been struggling with this since he was at least 4. If this is not an addiction yet - it is definitely a compulsion he cannot control. I've learned with this addiction that until someone reaches their bottom - they don't seem to turn the corner.

I pray that my son doesn't follow the same path as his dad and doesn't end up having to go through all the things his dad did. I grieve for their pain. I have such compassion for these young boys and men as they try to fight the adversary. I know my son has become entangled in the flaxen cords - I just pray the cord doesn't become a chain.

I know Satan wants my son. He wants all of our children. He wants families to be lost.

I just pray that my husband and I have acquired the tools that when our son is truly serious about stopping we will be able to love him through all that he will have to go through.

I'm not sure if any of this makes sense, but thanks for letting me share.

[ScottPart2]

JoJo,

I think in many ways I am the grown-up version of the son you describe, with a couple of important differences; first, he is willing to talk to you and your husband which is hugely encouraging, and second, he has the example of people in his family willing to repent and make changes in their lives.

I would also encourage you to continue loving him as you do and trusting him to the Lord, and remember that a behavior or habit (or even an addiction) like his is not really about s_x or l~st, but about some other pain or hurt or unmet need which manifests itself in simply wanting to feel better. This basic underlying feeling likely has little if anything to do with you and your husband, in fact, it is your acceptance and love which will eventually help save him.

:-)

In the morning online meeting a short conversation went like this (I trust this will be okay to share since I am removing the names?)...

PERSON 1: I am in that place this morning, where I am sad, lonely and having fantasy thoughts that life will be different...

PERSON 2: You sound like a person homesick for heaven. I so identify. A stranger in a strange land, as the saying goes. I truly think people prone to addiction are people prone to the kind of loneliness and sadness you describe--and that those are often among the most spiritual people on earth.

I have been that pre-teen child so lonely and homesick for something else, something more which I could not identify and had no hope of finding--I didn't even know what it was I was longing for and hurting for and feeling empty about. I also had no one to talk to about the way I found to numb those feelings and get through life, we didn't talk about such things, there would have been anger and punishment. I didn't talk about being tormented at school--it never occurred to me to bring it up at home. Maybe that's why I didn't connect with Heavenly Father and Jesus in a real personal way until I was a married father in my thirties and slowly becoming addicted to p~rn, and realized I had to take the leap of faith (almost felt like dying--like jumping off a cliff) to find out if there really was help and change, like people say.

As a youngster I had no idea my desperate feelings were a spiritual longing--I'm not even sure I was consciously aware of my feelings at that point--I was numbing them out as much as possible. And this in a home where I was loved and taught the gospel, but not connecting to it in a conscious way--it was just a background pattern in my life.

There is such hope for the future of a child in a loving, talking, aware family blessed with the gospel--a family like yours. Even in my case there was a pull to the spiritual and the gospel that eventually began breaking through and revealing itself slowly as what I was looking for all along. I am so grateful. My own family and children have benefitted so much from who I have become--in fact, 2 of my own children have been willing to come to me to ask for an appointment with the bishop over the years. I know it is because we love and talk and I have given them some basic details of my own repentance process as appropriate for their ages. One of these kids is now preparing for a mission within the year and I credit the recovery process I have gone through and continue to go through for helping me connect with him and for him finding his own willingness four years ago to ask for help.

You and your husband being in recovery--being "in remission of sins" even while imperfect--will turn out to be a huge blessing in this young man's life, I am sure of that. You will be the Savior's hands and heart and love in his life until he truly connects with Jesus for himself.

:-)

If any of this is useful, I am glad, and if not, please ignore it and I will be satisfied that I followed the prompting to respond even though I didn't do it yesterday since your family is none of my business, but I felt it again last night and this morning, so here it is.

Best to you, your son, and the rest of your family,

Scott

[Wendy J]

Jojo - I want to apologize in advance because I really don't want to take the focus away from your son, which is what this post is really about. But I just wanted to take a second to respond to what Scott said.

Scott, I am so glad you were prompted to post what you did. Things fell into place fo me as you described the loneliness/emptiness/hurt that addicted people seem to share. I love that you described it as a homesickness for heaven.

I remember experiencing these feelings strongly as a child, teenager, and young adult. It was almost a feeling that I would never be able to find where I really belonged, or any real amount of understanding. When I was younger, I used healthy coping mechanisms to express those feelings - like writing and music and art.

For some reason as I've grown into adulthood my coping mechanism changed somehow - instead of looking for ways of expressing those feelings, I fell into addiction to squash them, and the self-destructive habits that had started to rear their head in my childhood solidified into addiction.

I wonder if it has something to do with getting married, since that's when things really fell apart for me. It's almost like I felt I was being unfaithful if I continued looking for something beyond what my husband could offer me, so I stopped looking for that something more that my soul was searching for.

I am glad to grab onto your idea that these feelings are a sort of homesickness that can point me towards heaven if I'm willing to stop burying them in addiction.

Much love,
Wendy

[JoJo]

Scott,

Thank you so much for sharing.

This morning my son came to me and was telling me how the kids were picking on him at school yesterday. They had called him stupid, an idiot, and told him he had the brain a size of a pea. He has been bullied ever since we've moved to this school 4 years ago.

My husband is going to take him somewhere and talk to him about it tonight after football practice. He is going to share how he was picked on.

Our son has such a sensitive soul. He really has a heart of gold. His goal is to cure cancer and save all the animals. He really is smart enough to do it if he can get past all the bullying - it has made him hate school. Last year he even had a teacher start bullying him. I went to the V.P., but the school doesn't seem to care.

He has started to make some friends this year, but they are not what I would consider good friends. They are goof offs and all they do is talk about video games. The video games that they talk about are ones that my son is not allowed to play. But, how do you tell him to not hang around the only kids that will talk to him.

I will never give up on him. I would give any of my kids my last breath. I feel very blessed to have been entrusted with these 4 wonderful Spirits and I will try with all my heart to be the best mom I can be and leave the rest up to the Lord.

I found out today that one of the kids that my husband knew growing up committed suicide a couple of days ago. He suffered from the same addiction as my husband. He never got help - even when he lost his wife and kids he didn't get help, he just moved. How sad - it makes my heart cry.

I know the Savior can mend a broken heart and I pray as my husband and I continue on this road to recovery we will be blessed with the knowledge to help each of our children get through this test called life. I know this test is not easy, but thankfully our kids have something I didn't and that is the gospel.

Thanks again,
JoJo

[JoJo]

Yesterday I walked into my sons’ room and caught my eldest son acting out. Needless to say I was shocked. I didn’t even know he was in there; I was going in to check and make sure the bearded dragon had food. He immediately started apologizing - I asked him what happened. He said he started looking at things the day before that he shouldn’t be looking at and started acting out again.

It was very sad for – it was just two weeks ago that he received the Aaronic Priesthood and last Sunday he passed the Sacrament for the first time.

My husband happened to be home and he went in to talk to our son. He asked him why he had been able to stop acting out for the past few months - our son told him because he wanted to be able to receive the Aaronic Priesthood.

Basically, I think he has been white-knuckling it for the past few months. I know my husband did that for years. It seems to be something quite common among those who do not have the steps and who have not surrendered their will to Heavenly Father.

I fortunately had an S-Anon meeting to go to last night. On the drive there I just kept praying and surrendering – by the time I got there I was feeling so much better. We read Step Seven and it was just what I needed to read and hear about.

After I got home I talk to my husband and then called my sponsor. I’m feeling sad because there are these Twelve proven principles that can help my son – but I’m not free to share them with him because he doesn’t know about my husband’s addiction. My sponsor told me that in her son’s webelos class – her son is the only one that is not dealing with a po~nography issue. It made us both very sad.

After our call, I talk to my husband again. He is prayerfully considering telling our son about his po~rnography addiction. He said he is thinking about telling him about the Twelve Steps from ARP.

I went online to do some research and was not able to find any Twelve Step programs for adolescents. I was actually quite shocked because I know there is such a problem out there for the youth.

Once my husband talks to our son – I have wondered about introducing him to HDDMFB. I truly believe it is a much better book than the ARP book. But – neither my husband nor I can be his sponsor and I know he needs someone to help guide him through this recovery process.

I know my husband started down his addiction road at age 10. He has told me that most of the men he has come to know also started very young. I guess the dilemma I am currently dealing with is do you introduce him to the Twelve Steps or do you wait till he is older and trying to clean up his life so he can go on a mission.

I love our children with all my heart. I know that they do not belong to me that they are Heavenly Father’s children and we are just be entrusted with them for the time being. I know that I have no control of any of their decisions. It just seems wrong not to give him the tools and to teach him that only through Christ can he find peace and serenity.

I would appreciate any thoughts.

JoJo

P.S. I think there is another book here that needs to be written for the youth that are suffering from this addiction.